At midnight on August 3rd, DIR EN GREY’s latest single 'Ochita Koto no aru Sora’ was released through digital distribution. Half a day before this, on 2nd afternoon’s, this magazine had the opportunity to talk to Kaoru (guitar) and Toshiya (bassist).
Following the 'TOUR 20 SOGAI’ that was scheduled for this spring, the two-night performances 'The Insulated World-The screams of Alienation’, which were supposed to be held on July 23 and 24, at Pia Arena MM, a large venue newly established in Yokohama, were also cancelled. However, this latest song with such a meaningful title was delivered as a promised.
Completed by Josh Wilbur as a mixing engineer, this song should be the starting point for a new direction for the band. On the other hand, the flow of their live activities has been cut off. However, even if they are under such a strange situation, I felt objectivity and calmness that differs from resignation in their words.
-I think the situation is different so far from the usual single release timing. When it comes to digital-distribution only releases, things like booklets or extra DVDs are no involved in the process.
Kaoru: No, it was supposed to be like that, but this is what we are doing right now. Besides, we are making an special package for Pia Arena (a packaged version of the same single that will be sent to ticket purchasers who didn’t want a refund due to the cancellation of the two-night performance at Pia Arena MM).
Toshiya: So, in the end, the result is the same thing.
Kaoru: It feels like (the idea of) that kind of work (packages) is something that we pursued later so that’s why the talk about if we should do a photoshoot for it or not came out.
-I see. This time, the first digital distribution only release was made. It was the result of reassuring the release of new songs at this time, right?
Kaoru: That’s right. A digital release is probably the best way to get it on time.
Toshiya: In a sense, it’s also a new initiative. I always thought the time for us to release something in this this way would come. I couldn’t predict when that would happen. But now, at this time and under these circumstances, I feel like a digital release is a very rational thing. On the contrary, if it was not this time, maybe we wouldn’t had known when the right time was to give it a try.
-Then, this situation made it happen. In the first place, surely the song ‘Ochita koto no aru sora’ was planned to make its debut at the two-night performance in Yokohama (Pia Arena), After that, you have planned to release it around July, right? As a result, the fact that the performances were cancelled seems to have changed the implications a bit.
K: Originally, the flow/world of ‘The Insulated World’ was supposed to be finished in those two days, and we were heading to a new path from there, but the lives that were supposed to be the precursor for that, disappeared. So, as a result of that, it feels like the new single will be released while the previous flow is still going on. Of course, just because the tours and live performances that were supposed to be held are gone doesn’t mean we can’t make new ones, however, but you could say that the way to look at their flow has changed. Well, actually, about those two live shows (PIA ARENA MM), we may try to do them again someday in the future.
-But in fact, just because a new flow is about to begin, even if these so-called revenge performances are done in the future, at this point, the things that you wanted to do might have changed.
K: Yes. Because I don’t think of them as performances that had a date change. Over time, the songs we want to play will change. We actually talk about that. As expected, I can’t say anything about it yet (laughs)
-At the same time, the single. I think the way we look at the ‘Ochita koto no aru sora’ will also change.
T: It will change naturally. But it can’t be helped, and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. No matter what kind of work it is, it’s something that gets out of our hands at the moment that we put it out for the world. From that moment, I think it will change depending on the moment that people listen to it and how they feel connected to it.
-For the two-night performance in Yokohama, the set list was broadcasted in real time on your official channel of Youtube. The last song of the 2nd day was ’SUSTAIN THE UNTRUTH’. I think that the fans that we were watching it should had listened to it while imagining ‘what kind of atmosphere will have the end of this performance?’.
K: I don’t think you could imagine what kind of live it was supposed to be even if you tried to (laughs). However, to reveal something at that live…. If we could had done these live, there was no announcement planned after the performance. We had no plans to do a tour beyond that, and there was nothing new to announce at that time. As a result, it only became possible to announce the single properly at that time.
-The moment in which the flow from 'The Insulated World’ was completed after the two-night performance, the growing curiosity would be “what’s next?”. If nothing is announced, that’s going to make people talk (speculate) about that, right?
T: Hahaha. For sure.
K: Well, but it was like “but there is nothing! (to announce)’, right? (laughs), But well, we are just about starting the album production. It’s just that we can’t announce anything because we haven’t decided when we are going to announce it yet.
T: But that’s already the greatest implication, right?
-For sure. Anyway, the fans have no choice but to use their imagination. Also, a song with such a meaningful title such as ‘Ochita koto no aru sora’…what kind of song it it? Is the kind of song that is ahead of ‘The Insulated World 'and 'The World of Mercy’? Could you say that this song suggests the musical direction you are going to move on?
K: Well, we don’t know yet. It’s just a song has been completed to be single. It starts from there but who knows what will happen in the future?
-In other words, it’s better to think of it only as a single song, right?
K: Yes. At this point, that’s what it is.
-Kaoru, you said in an interview published in 'BURRN! JAPAN VOL 16’done before the completion of this single that I have no choice but to imagine how the music would be from the title. You used the mysterious words “a modern/ a song according to the current times” as way of teasing me.
K: I did say such a thing, didn’t I? (laughs)
-I had no idea of what that meant, but from the impression of the title, I imagined a slow song that felt dark and heavy. However, when I actually got to listen to it, I found out that it’s not like that at all. It’s a song that doesn’t fit in your common format or a standard song that has gone through a process of changes. Although there are many developments parts and just a few repetitions, it feels like all these the elements are tightly packed in these 3 minutes. Pointing out that it’s a song that debunks the theory I made, I wonder what did you mean with “a song according to the current times/modern”?
K: What I wanted to point out when I said that it’s that the high point of the melody(chorus) isn’t the only outstanding thing about the song. Usually there is one high point in the song, usually in the middle of it and a few other highlights during it. That’s what I think that I meant when I say a “modern song” (laughs)
-What were your first impressions when you heard the song, Toshiya?
T: I don’t remember the impression I had when I first heard it. Of course, the song itself has changed a lot since that moment. However, it did change following the flow of DIR EN GREY at the same time in a natural way. I don’t know how to say explain it properly but, I think that it feels like a song that was composed while using limited components very effectively. It’s a very interesting song composed with creativity and originality.
-The fact that it’s a song composed with the minimum necessary parts, including the the catchy part makes it interesting and intertwined, isn’t it?
T: That’s right. So, while adding and subtracting parts, it created a good shape for the song. I think that’s very interesting.
-In a sense, I feel that it also connectss with “CLEVER SLEAZOID”, which is recorded in a new version this time.
K: What do you mean?
-At that time, that song was also the beginning of a new flow for you, building up the song until a high point. Moreover, there was a compactness in each part that were intertwined in a functional way and finished without needing to repeat parts more than the necessary. That’s why I felt there was some intention behind these two songs lined up together in this way.
K: Ah, I see.
T: But that’s reading too much into it (laughs)
K: Actually, before the main song of the single was completed, I’ve already arranged it, this 'Clever Sleazoid’.
“I wish we could live in really safe circumstances. Rules for live might be different, but I definitely want to try it soon” Toshiya
-Oh really? What made you decide to re-record this song at this time?
K: Somehow, the lyrics….
T: As he (Kyo) wanted to sing them in Japanese…
K: Yes. English is mixed this time as well in the lyrics, but at that time the lyrics were all in English. (Note: In the original song, only one line in Japanese was included in the end). He wanted to sing it in Japanese, we thought we should try it.
T: This was… I think it was in France. We had already decided to do it during the European tour from January to February. That’s why I remember the time when we were rehearsing it in France.
K: Yeah, that’s right.
T: We raised the tempo a little, change the rhythm, and try to match it together. It was like… ‘how does it feel like this? ‘Or like that?’ We were kind of checking the atmosphere that it would create (for the song).
- The single “Clever sleazoid” was released in 2005. At that time, even from the American label side, the lyrics were requested to be made in English. That’s something that might had cause Kyo feel disappointed. Also, using the English language did not change the way people accepted you in Europe and the United States. So it might me something that created a feeling of discontent. By the way, this song hasn’t been on the set list so much in the last years.
K: That was just a coincidence.
-It was a little surprising that it wasn’t included in the set list for the two-night performance in Yokohama (PIA ARENA).
T: Yeah, for sure.
K: If we would had put it in this time, you just can’t play the old version. It’s just like that. (When the setlist of PIA ARENA was broadcasted in Youtube)
-I agree with that. There are many things I would like to ask about the lyrics of this song now that are done in Japanese, and of course, the lyrics of “Ochita koto no aru sora”, but this time, Kyo seems that won’t accept interviews about the lyrics. Fans have begun to search for the lyrics of “Ochita koto no aru sora” since the short version of Youtube was released for the first time. The words “August 6th Morning” appear in the lyrics but is the reason of this the continuation of the story that is told in the song “Riyuu” (Song from 'Macabre’,released in 2000, the lyrics start with the words “August 5th”)or is it pointing out the date when the atomic bomb was dropped in Hiroshima? When the video clip was released, it seemed more natural to interpret it like the latter, because it includes images related to war scenarios. I don’t really want to compare your answers here but, how do you both interpret it?
K: Mmm, I think that it’s like something that is restricted, like being trapped in something where you can’t see anything. That kind of feeling. To tell the truth, Kyo told me something like “this is the feeling of it” but, it seems that at some parts, the current situation has also been included. The other day, following the cancellation of the Pia Arena performances, there was a talk event for people who purchased VIP tickets, and this same thing was said there right on the spot. “It’s not unrelated to this situation right now”.
-Even if he originally wanted to write about other things, does this mean that this situation has affected it (the lyrics)?
K: It seems so.
-What do you think of this, Toshiya?
T: I don’t really try to interpret the lyrics in detail, however, I was wondering if this song was a continuation. I feel the lyrics these days are all connected even if they come from different directions. Also, I basically think of all his lyrics and songs in terms of melody. So, I didn’t scrutinize the meaning of the lyrics or anything like that, for me it is like a sound.
-Saying so, I can’t go asking any further (laughs) In fact, I myself feel that there is a continuation in that sense. I think there should be a connection with “The World of Mercy”. What about the title itself, “Ochita koto no aru sora" (“The fallen sky or the sky that has fallen”)? Does this mean that a sky has fallen? Does that mean that you yourself or something has fallen in the past? Initially, I felt it was the first option but now seeing the story, it seems most likely to be the latter.
K: I think it could be both things falling, right? But, I think that it’s ok for each person to decide how they do perceived to the lyrics.
-I feel like the suffocating feeling as if the sky was falling, overlaps somehow with the current situation.
K: Yes. However, when you use “koto no aru”, it means that you have already experienced it. So, in the sense still….
T: I’m not really sure about it.
K: I don’t feel like the person who wrote the lyrics wants to say “this is it” clearly. In a way, if it were something that wants to be clear, it would be explicit in the lyrics. Rather than that, there is a part in which what is writing is daringly blurry. After all, I don’t think I like explaining the meaning of the words because explaining will weaken the meaning. Isn’t it stronger if everything is in the shape you wrote it?
-Yes. I would like to ask Kyo again about this matter sometime after. However, what about the link between the content and the video clip with the lyrics? For example, among those which are known, as "VINUSHKA" (included in “Uroboros” released in 2008) from the video, it is natural that some people interpret is as “This is a song about the atomic bomb, isn’t it? However, it is not a materialization of the lyrics, but rather an answer to the song from the director of the video’s side. The video of "Ochita koto no aru Sora” is directed by Keita Kurosaka, who has worked on “Agitated Screams of Maggots” and “Rinkaku"as well. This time, you asked Mr. Kurosaka to do it because……?
K: First of all, the actual question was who could make the clip. So, it started with looking for a director. It was the same as always, this time, after all, it’s hard to come up with new ideas when it comes to select people for doing it. This time, it’s not directed by Kondo (Hiroyuki: the video director who has worked on many of their video clips) because the previous clip has not been completed yet (laughs). If he hasn’t finished that, we can’t ask him for a new one. So, we talked to Mr. Kurosaka, with whom up until now we have worked together with animation stuff but, as there were also people who took pictures and footage, we decided to mix them up.
-So that was the reason why you didn’t ask Mr. Kondo? The full version of ‘'The World of Mercy’ video clip isn’t out yet…
K: It’s not finished. It hasn’t been done yet, it’s true. But….aren’t we a little weird? Somehow, normally, we should be angrier. Actually, I was angry but even so, it wasn’t done yet (laughs)
-He is a person who thoroughly goes digs in the content. The video will be exceeding the 10 minutes as well as the length of the song. However, until now, the video for 'The World of Mercy’ has only being shown to our eyes in its limited version.
T: We also have seen only that as well (laughs)
K: We haven’t seen anything more than that. We’ve only seen the short one, so with those, we still don’t get the big picture of the video. That’s why we haven’t been able to do some exchange of opinions like ‘isn’t it really different?’
-That’s too bad.Isn’t it something like (the situation) of La Sagrada Familia?
T: Isn’t it? (laughs) After all, it seems it’s hard for Kondo to put everything together, because there are too many feelings or enthusiasm towards DIR EN GREY. I’m acting as his spokesman (laughs). But well, I’d like to ask you to do it faster (laughs)
-Once the video (‘The World of Mercy) is completed, it will become a big thing as well. However, since that song should have closed the flow of the ‘The insulated world’ in the first place, if it appears again in the future, it is possible that the flow becomes odd for some reason.
K: That’s right. Originally, we were planning to complete the feeling of the album at Pia Arena. But actually, that’s not possible. Although we have to use this video for future activities, we have to think about what kind of presentation should be done for it. The song itself is a thing of the past, we can’t simply go like “we are publishing it (the video) for the people just because we made a clip”, it’s not interesting anymore. The heat of the enthusiasm has cool down a little.
-In the meantime, the next single and its consequent video are coming out. But whatever the future is, you are about to start producing your next album. Is the idea/concept already there?
K: Well, little by little. Currently I don’t feel like we have many songs yet. From this month (August), we are supposed to start marking songs properly.
-For example ’The World of Mercy’, will it be part of the next album?
K: No, it won’t be included. After all, this song is the conclusion of ‘The insulated World'’.
-In terms of discography, it will be a bit independent from the next album.
T: I think it’s like that. In that sense, it will be like 'Ain’t afraid to die’. (Note: This song is a single released in 2001 to conclude the flow from 'Macabre’ and is not included in any of the original albums.)
K: Well, that’s fine, right? Probably we won’t need it for the next album (laughs)
-No, of course, I’d be happy if there were as many new songs as possible. It’s not like I’m not convinced that this song won’t be included in the next album but, whatever happens in the future with your live activities, from a creative perspective is it ok to think that flow from the album (The Insulated World) is over with this song?
K: Of course. However, I think there will be also some flow similar to this song. That’s because 'The World of Mercy 'is simply closer in time than 'The Insulated World’. But well, I don’t know what will happen (laughs)
-As we discussed earlier, there was also a sense of continuity in the lyrics. In recent years one of the most remarkable things that’s being said is that “there is no correct answer”, “A lie could be also the truth for a person” or something like “It may be true if you keep believing in it, even if you suspect that it may be wrong”. I felt some sense of contradiction. So, at the end of the two nights in Yokohama, I felt like you were hinting at something with the line “Ill feelings will continue coming”, a variation on the lyrics of “Sustain the Untruth”.
K: That’s simply because it was the last song at the end of the show, like creating the image of playing it with the audience while the lights were on (Note: they used live footage for this song at the broadcasting). It was just this song because it wasn’t included the day before. However, when it comes to lyrics, there are moments that you can think about it in that way.
-A two-night performance that was supposed to end leaving such an aftertaste. But without closing the previous flow, “Ochita koto ga aru no sora” comes into the world and goes on. I’m looking forward to it while I was imagining how is it going to be. A concrete thing about this single again is that you have had Brian Gardner as mastering engineer for some time, right? This might be the first time you have teamed up with Josh Wilbur, who was in charge of mixing this time. Does this mean that it was the right timing to do it?
K: That’s right. He is very popular, so we never had a chance to work with him. It seemed possible this time, so we decided to ask him for the first time. Well, he is quite of a “on my own way" type of person. Like, he plays with the sound as he feels. The first time he sent us back what he created, we were like “what the hell is this?” (laughs)
-You really didn’t see that coming, right?
K: That’s right. Even if the song was processed just a little, at first there were parts that it was like “what?” “this can’t be good” (laughs). After all, as he is a person who also does pop music, don’t you have a tendency to try to do such things?
-In short, in these times, processing like that is a way to create an upgraded form (of the song)
K: Actually, I don’t know if I would say that it is an “upgraded” form. Somehow, it’s like he doesn’t want to leave it as it is.
-He is simply not someone that just says, “I will make it sound good”.
K: That’s right.
T: Yes. Maybe he is someone who wants to leave a mark in the sounds he makes. I guess he is that type of person. But when I heard the sound that came back from the first mix he did, I thought it was “interesting”. It was too different from our previous approach, but it was interesting from an objective point of view. However, at first, we sent him a provisional mix made here in Japan, telling him we wanted it to sound “like that”. Usually, the song would be sent back with that feeling (as we requested). As it came back with a completely different direction, it was like a shoot and I was struck by it. I was a bit surprised.
-You don’t know what kind of person he was until you actually try to team with him.
K: Yes. At first, we thought it would take him some time to do it. But as he is a person working in many things, as we told him the appropriate things, we thought he would do it properly. Actually, he sent it back to us quickly. So, when it comes to that, if we told him “please do this thing here”, he sent it back (done) soon.
-In short, at first, he may not be the type of person that at the time of sending it back to you, sends you something “safe”. It’s like he doesn’t want to do it in a safe way.
K: That might be true. But at first the sound of the band itself was strongly metal.
-Do you mean more than what it was?
K: Yes. Like the drums…. the drums were much sloppier than the final version ones. I feel like I overlooked his intentions a bit.
-However, if you are in a situation where you can work by exchanging data, even if the returned idea is not what you were looking for, you will realize “Oh, can turn out like this?” Even if it’s not the correct answer for you right now, it may be a hint for someday.
K: Certainly, there were moments like that. However, although it is exciting in itself, we had a strong consciousness that we were actually doing it, so I didn’t expect that much (laughs) Wanting to do it “more like this” comes out first. However, if I listen to it again later, I think that the “Oh, I see” feeling will come out.
“No, we don’t know that yet. It’s just a song that was completed as a single. It starts from here though” Kaoru
-It must have been meaningful to you to know what kind of work he would do. You said “he is a person working in many things” but he turned out to be a person that doesn’t do everything in a smooth/safe way.
K: Yes. On the contrary, there are some people who won’t take the song to the extend that you want even if you can see the answer (final result) from the beginning and tell them “how about this?”. In that sense, I guess he was well suited for the task.
-It’s hard to point out the specific difference from your usual sound but, after all, something feels different.
K:That’s right. Moreover, somehow isn’t the existence of the song itself already big? I thought it would be difficult to put it out like that, so I thought it was he someone who would do it.
- You can hear Kyo’s mid-range singing very well. The lyrics of those parts also come up clearly.
K: Yes. But that doesn’t mean that some sound is being cut off there. Everything is coming out in a really clean way. That’s why I feel like he (Josh Wilbur) is a person who knows how to produce all kind of sounds.
-Yes. If you look at the works he has done in the past, it’s not just heavy rock, it’s very diverse in musical terms. (Note: The list of artists he has worked with includes not only LAMB OF GOD, MEGADETH, TRIVIUM, but also P!Nk and Faith Hill.) DIR EN GREY has had many opportunities to work with several engineers this way, but for the future….
K: We want to continue working with him. If he tried with the single and it worked out well, the next step would be the album. I wish we could find someone who would like to work with us on the next album, but I’m not sure if he will take care of it. It’s depends on what we will do in the future until we find someone like him who can do it.
- If all goes well in the future, I think you should be able to tell us about the next album you are already picturing in your imagination in a few months. Do you think the production schedule wouldn’t have changed in the first place, even if this first domestic tour or the two-night performance in Yokohama were held as scheduled?
K: That’s right.
-In other words, do you mean that you will be absorbed in production the album this year?
K: That’s right. Well, as a matter of fact, I feel that we can do nothing but to move in a different way under this situation. At least, isn’t it hard to think about doing new lives? If there were more live shows that have already been scheduled, we would think about what to do with them. In our case, we cancelled the tour, didn’t we? For the time being, there are venues where the postponement is still on hold and there are other venues that are actually still booked. But, well, in the current situation, the question is if new lives should be announced at those places (that are booked).
- At the same time, even if there is a not officially announced live schedule, it does not necessarily mean you should do it in the way you originally thought.
K: Yes. So, in the end it’s likely that it will be postponed again and if that happens, I think we should hold the venue again sometime next year There are a lot of things to think about, and in fact, all we talk about now is how we’re going to move.
- Actually right now, is there anything left to announce after the two-night performance at Pia Arena?
K: That’s it. There is nothing that can be announced now.
- Even if you make a release schedule, the situation will be different depending if you can play lives or not. Of course, if you have a situation in which you can play lives as before, you’ll want to do it as soon as possible, but we are waiting for that to be possible….
K: We are in a difficult position, aren’t we? How long should we wait? For example, if this situation continues next year, I feel like it’s going to be complicated for us. We can’t wait forever, but we can’t force it ourselves. So, I can only say that it depends on the situation. For example, you’re planning a tour in winter right now. Normally, we would have to announce it soon, right? But in the current situation, that is not possible. If we decide and announce it right away, we will sell the ticket according to the guidelines* at that moment, but actually no matter when you restart doing lives, I don’t think we can announce it with the minimum time in advance, and I think the guideline itself will change in the future if we announce it with months in advance. To sell the tickets according to the guidelines at that time, you would have to do (the lives) in a short span of time, like a month later.
*Japan’s guidelines for events (concerts, sports events…) are measures to prevent the spread of Corona virus. These measures limits the venue capacity and advocate for social distancing among other things. However, the guidelines is not legally enforced.
-For example, in the future, in a seated venue, you can only perform if there is an interval (empty seats) between attendees, and in such a situation, the picture that comes to your mind when you imagine a live will be different. In that case, I guess that it’s hard that this fits the way of doing lives that you have been trying to do until now.
K: That’s right.
T: I think everyone has no choice but to explore the options. Of course, the idea of playing lives normally should still be there, but I think we should explore other ideas as well. That’s why……there are many unclear parts, but the current situation is that it cannot be clarified. As this happens, I think there is no choice but to think about the possibilities in both directions. So, if we can do something interesting, I think we should do it, and if we can play lives in a safe environment…. the guideline may change again, but of course I want to do it right away.
-I hope the situation where we can enjoy live performances as before will return, and I hope you will be able to do what you were trying to do this year in a similar way in the future. When that time comes, it will be an upgraded form.
K: Of course. In fact, we are always thinking about a year ahead, no, even more…Of course, there are plans that we will keep. However, we are not sure if these things can be done as we planned. But well, we work on the premise that we can do it, and if we can’t do, there will a right time for it.
-When the right time comes, you may have to do all at the same time, what you originally thought you would do and the things that you were putting aside too.
K: Yes, that too (laughs)
T: That can be tough, though.
-As soon as the touring ban is lifted, and each band restarts their live activities at once….
T: That’s a difficult thing, isn’t it?
K: That’s why….it might the same from the audience’s perspective but, it also depends on how much the people around the artist and live staff can resist. I want them to endure this situation until somehow, we can play live without worrying about it. What should we do so they can endure it? The hardest thing would be that they weren’t there when we can play lives again. That’s why…. I hope everyone can survive this situation somehow.
My conversation with these two people ends here. I don’t know how the situation will change in the future. Optimism is dangerous, but we don’t have to imagine the worst. In this phase,I am grateful that the new song was released at the promised time, and I would like to get ready for the right time to come without giving up hope. However, we can’t do anything about it, just long for it.
Zdroj:https://thepriceofbeingaroseisloneliness.tumblr.com/post/632271338801856512/kaorutoshiya-interview-burrn-october-2020-22
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