- This time I would like to talk about your new single, "Le Ciel". Where would you like to start?
There are so many things that I'm not sure what to start with, but I guess this is best. To begin with, I came up with the song when we went to film Bel Aire in France, when we were filming the part on the elevated field. There's nowhere like that in Japan. Back then I felt a lot of different things. When we came up with the idea for Bel Aire there was the field, and the sky, and the wind, and when they all came together the song came floating out from within me. It was more than just a song; it was an entire world that floated out...no, more like it came crashing down on me. At that instant, as everything fell into place in my head and in the landscape, I saw a story. That story is "Le Ciel."
- So that's where it all started?
Yes. But I couldn't have made it into a song just from what I saw in France. I put all of the things I had experienced and come to believe in that song too.
- So you took bits from your life and combined them with your experiences in France to create this?
Yup. It's like everything I've felt since I was born is in this song. But anyone can do that, if they're only putting their own feelings into their song. I didn't do that though; I wanted to have a story that everyone could relate to. It's only one story, but people have their own ways of thinking of things. Because of that different stories develop, and I wrote the song as if I were writing from all those different experiences.
- I see. So you went to France and got the idea for the story, and then made it into a song, but you were thinking about your experiences and they came together until they formed the core meaning for it. And if we concentrate on one thing at a time the number will keep expanding...
Right.
- Right. Well, said in a way that is understandable, do you think you can join all of these ideas together for us?
There are things that point to it in the general concept of "Le Ciel" and in my own basic concepts, like "what is kindness?"...or "what is justice?" and "what is evil?", things like that.
- But that's the big theme in your life, right?
I suppose it is. The world for the song came me in France, but the concept became deeply connected with the meaning in those expressions one by one. But that's not just what the song's about, that's what Malice Mizer's about.
- Got it. This is what Merveilles itself is about. So that means that your thoughts on things like "what is right (justice)" are the meaning of the album?
Of course.
- It seems like it has that variation, through all the different songs.
- If you write "kind" in kanji, it really is easy to say it clearly as "yasashii". But kindness is more of something that is learned through experience. That kind of thing can't be expressed easily in words, can it?
There are so many kinds of kindness and sadness. So in Merveilles the various feelings of kindness and sadness branch off into different kinds. And from there, the songs branch off as well. That's the relationship that the songs have with the album.
- I see. It's like seeing a full length portrait from "le ciel" to "merveilles". It's not something separate from it, but something that comes from it naturally. "Le ciel" can't be talked about without talking about "merveilles" as well, can it?
- There are, aren't there...
- And we'll understand that from the video?
I think so. The video picks up one tale from the many paths of the story in "le ciel". That doesn't mean that's all there is to it though.
- When we see that story that was used for the video, we will understand the story on the earth as well?
Well, I want people to grasp this one story.
- I understand now! That's why this time your costume is all white. But in the live you sang "le ciel" in a black costume with black wings. Are there two versions? The white one and the black one?
Yeah. But that's still a small number. It's just...what am I trying to say? In any kind of "le ciel" there's a part like "what is he finally trying to say?", and I think understanding it is like struggling to the end of all of it at last.
- The way of expressing each one is different?
Right. The details are different. Like in Grim's faery tales. There are various stories but they can be drawn together by certain keywords. One sentence from each is grouped with the others like that. And the stories themselves say a lot of amazing things about cruelty and human nature. Maybe it would be best to think of it with that image in mind.
- I see. Well then can you tell us about the story behind the black version of "le ciel" that you used at the live?
It picks up my version of the story on stage, but each of us is living a different story. And the man who gave me the black wings (the one controlling Gackt in the story, not Mana) felt that it is our destiny to fight. There was an age where a race of gods lived above the earth, and they had made a promise with the humans that neither race would touch upon the boundaries of the other's world. At that time the races were different, but the humans were not forced to worship the gods. The god in this story is one of those gods, and the god is just living along with the fact that it was destined to be a god from birth. Maybe you can say it's an angel.*
- That destiny is unavoidable so running from it would mean death, and there would be reason for living, right?
Right. The god that controls me, or more like his destiny, I can't run from it, but I am fighting it. But there's a part of destiny that is to fight, and the angel that is suited to seeing himself will disappear. I, who can't run, am that angel. He had no need for any other emotions so it didn't really fit him to have them. The fighting happened above the sky, but the angel got hurt during the fight and fell from the sky to earth.
- When you used fake blood in the live, was it because he fought in the sky and got hurt?
Yup, and while he was standing on the meadow and beginning to feel that his life was exhausted, he was waiting for death. He had finally lost the will to fight and there was no more reason left to live. And, just as he was thinking that, he heard a voice like he had never heard before; a human girl was singing in the meadows...He had never seen anything like that before and when it appears to him the girl notices him and approaches him. Ordinarily if she had seen so much blood she would have run, but she did not embrace the fear she felt and, in an expression of ultimate kindness, without saying anything she placed her hand over his wound. Then he began, just a little, to feel something other than his desire to fight.
- So that means that kindness basically touched those feelings for the first time.
That the girl was able to ignore her fear and embrace him because they shared the same emotions, they understood one another. He only knew how to fight, but there he came to understand humans and to know that there are these other feelings. But they shouldn't be unnecessary to him. He exists to fight, after all. But he feels no remorse for what has happened. And he knows that their two worlds can't exist together , so he decides to return to the sky. As for having felt those other emotions, he does not regret those either. Yet still, he can't stay on earth.
- The ending sure is getting complicated.
Well, that's how he felt. And he thought that all he could do for her right then was to at least show her the beauty as he returned to the sky. With his body so hurt he could only flap his wings, but he knew that memory would stay with her.
- I can still see that scene from the live...
He stored up a bit of his power, and with that he scattered the stars in the sky and floated back up amongst them. That is what he could show her. And it was her destiny to do nothing but watch as he left.
- I see. I've got it now.
This kind of story will never be anything more than a story. But I think that I have felt like that before. I was born and grew up, and then I suddenly realized about enterprises and went to work, and now I get up at 8 in the morning and work over time do the same thing over and over in order to live. If I denied that I wouldn't be able to do anything, so I forgot those feelings of denial and just go on doing the same things. So maybe those feelings exist even though I live a normal life.
- Can you transpose those things onto ourselves from "le ciel"?
I think so. In the case that someone doesn't see it as a member of the audience they will feel a bit of it, and that means that there's a sense of the world from "le ciel" in that person. From there, the next step is to decide on an ending for yourself. We did our last show in the Yokohama Arena, and I performed this song and then disappeared. You never found out what happened after. But everyone should be able to find the ending inside of themselves.
- At the end of the show, the silhouette of a person with unfolding wings is visible on the stage. Does that have anything to do with the ending?
Nothing to do with it. I can't say everything, but it's not just "le ciel", it's one of the major themes to "merveilles" too. It foreshadows the powerful things that you can see from the beginning to the end of the album. It's a symbol of power, but I don't know if it's the power of goodness or evil.
- Well, with that, do you have anything to say about the newly arranged version of the white "le ciel" scheduled for release on September 30th?
First, I would like you to try to feel the wind from the meadow in France, the overall environment. Back then I sensed the part of myself that had been waiting to find that kind of place.
- The single is the abvient feeling of the environment put into music?
Yeah. I think deep down everyone wants to be in that kind of place. It just happened that it was only in France, not that I found it because of France. I also think that everyone has had the feelings that I chanced upon in France in some other place. I hope I could express that feeling in this song. After some time has passed maybe others will be able to feel things as well.
- Will we understand the difference between this version of the song and the one from the live when we see the music video?
Yes. I think each member of Malice Mizer has a different general concept, but for me the most important one is "what is kindness?" That's not all though.
- Is your way of expressing that in the video different from the angel's way of expressing it in the live?
Well, he's not human. ... ...What I felt the world I saw in France meant, maybe what I felt when the wind and earth joined together, is in the video. But it's hard to say. It's not the same place that we filmed; there is the scenery, it's a country from somewhere else.
- It's not France?
Well...that's a secret (laughs). But I think the people I've let see it will understand that I designed things that didn't have to do with the scenery or the general concept of the country.
- From our talk so far I get the feeling that in respect to the place you will return to, you are the type who would wish for a peaceful world.
um~how is it indeed. There are some things I wish I didn't think (laughs). I'd like to be able to live enjoyably but...
- But you don't think you can?
I don't (laughs). Living is a hard thing to think about. There's a humongous difference between being made to live and living, after all.
- And I felt that you were such a positive person from the beginning!
I haven't been for a long time. The song is a product of the environment I'm in right now, so there is positiveness in it. A long time ago I caved in and had only negative thoughts, but I pulled through and now I've become more positive. But still...
- So you thought all sorts of negative things?
Yeah. But my theme since then still hasn't changed. I've always strongly wanted to understand reality and confirm what I find.
- Like, when I heard your story about the angel who was destined to fight, I couldn't help but wonder if you wished you could be like that as well?
It's not that I want to be like that, but I am that kind of person. If that part of me died I would have no reason left to live.
- Lastly, in our interview last month you said that you expected to find the answer to what you were searching for during your show, but I'm concerned about that. How do you think this answer will manifest itself?
We don't really feel like pushing any conclusion or real meaning. Both we and our fans are still looking for answers. And the people who came to our live and who used our stage were each also a small part of the live, and if they exist in that space then it will collide with them and their emotions, and as a result the atmosphere will be created and it will enter nature and each individual's body.
- Wait a minute. You're still not at the stage where you can express it?
(laughs) Seems that way. Therefore, the things that I found at the live - everyone's gonna hate this (laughs) - but you will have to feel and gather them from the cd's and lives after this, and I would like you to anticipate that and wait for it. Right now I feel that's all I can say.
There are so many things that I'm not sure what to start with, but I guess this is best. To begin with, I came up with the song when we went to film Bel Aire in France, when we were filming the part on the elevated field. There's nowhere like that in Japan. Back then I felt a lot of different things. When we came up with the idea for Bel Aire there was the field, and the sky, and the wind, and when they all came together the song came floating out from within me. It was more than just a song; it was an entire world that floated out...no, more like it came crashing down on me. At that instant, as everything fell into place in my head and in the landscape, I saw a story. That story is "Le Ciel."
- So that's where it all started?
Yes. But I couldn't have made it into a song just from what I saw in France. I put all of the things I had experienced and come to believe in that song too.
- So you took bits from your life and combined them with your experiences in France to create this?
Yup. It's like everything I've felt since I was born is in this song. But anyone can do that, if they're only putting their own feelings into their song. I didn't do that though; I wanted to have a story that everyone could relate to. It's only one story, but people have their own ways of thinking of things. Because of that different stories develop, and I wrote the song as if I were writing from all those different experiences.
- I see. So you went to France and got the idea for the story, and then made it into a song, but you were thinking about your experiences and they came together until they formed the core meaning for it. And if we concentrate on one thing at a time the number will keep expanding...
Right.
- Right. Well, said in a way that is understandable, do you think you can join all of these ideas together for us?
There are things that point to it in the general concept of "Le Ciel" and in my own basic concepts, like "what is kindness?"...or "what is justice?" and "what is evil?", things like that.
- But that's the big theme in your life, right?
I suppose it is. The world for the song came me in France, but the concept became deeply connected with the meaning in those expressions one by one. But that's not just what the song's about, that's what Malice Mizer's about.
- Got it. This is what Merveilles itself is about. So that means that your thoughts on things like "what is right (justice)" are the meaning of the album?
Of course.
- It seems like it has that variation, through all the different songs.
- If you write "kind" in kanji, it really is easy to say it clearly as "yasashii". But kindness is more of something that is learned through experience. That kind of thing can't be expressed easily in words, can it?
There are so many kinds of kindness and sadness. So in Merveilles the various feelings of kindness and sadness branch off into different kinds. And from there, the songs branch off as well. That's the relationship that the songs have with the album.
- I see. It's like seeing a full length portrait from "le ciel" to "merveilles". It's not something separate from it, but something that comes from it naturally. "Le ciel" can't be talked about without talking about "merveilles" as well, can it?
- There are, aren't there...
- And we'll understand that from the video?
I think so. The video picks up one tale from the many paths of the story in "le ciel". That doesn't mean that's all there is to it though.
- When we see that story that was used for the video, we will understand the story on the earth as well?
Well, I want people to grasp this one story.
- I understand now! That's why this time your costume is all white. But in the live you sang "le ciel" in a black costume with black wings. Are there two versions? The white one and the black one?
Yeah. But that's still a small number. It's just...what am I trying to say? In any kind of "le ciel" there's a part like "what is he finally trying to say?", and I think understanding it is like struggling to the end of all of it at last.
- The way of expressing each one is different?
Right. The details are different. Like in Grim's faery tales. There are various stories but they can be drawn together by certain keywords. One sentence from each is grouped with the others like that. And the stories themselves say a lot of amazing things about cruelty and human nature. Maybe it would be best to think of it with that image in mind.
- I see. Well then can you tell us about the story behind the black version of "le ciel" that you used at the live?
It picks up my version of the story on stage, but each of us is living a different story. And the man who gave me the black wings (the one controlling Gackt in the story, not Mana) felt that it is our destiny to fight. There was an age where a race of gods lived above the earth, and they had made a promise with the humans that neither race would touch upon the boundaries of the other's world. At that time the races were different, but the humans were not forced to worship the gods. The god in this story is one of those gods, and the god is just living along with the fact that it was destined to be a god from birth. Maybe you can say it's an angel.*
- That destiny is unavoidable so running from it would mean death, and there would be reason for living, right?
Right. The god that controls me, or more like his destiny, I can't run from it, but I am fighting it. But there's a part of destiny that is to fight, and the angel that is suited to seeing himself will disappear. I, who can't run, am that angel. He had no need for any other emotions so it didn't really fit him to have them. The fighting happened above the sky, but the angel got hurt during the fight and fell from the sky to earth.
- When you used fake blood in the live, was it because he fought in the sky and got hurt?
Yup, and while he was standing on the meadow and beginning to feel that his life was exhausted, he was waiting for death. He had finally lost the will to fight and there was no more reason left to live. And, just as he was thinking that, he heard a voice like he had never heard before; a human girl was singing in the meadows...He had never seen anything like that before and when it appears to him the girl notices him and approaches him. Ordinarily if she had seen so much blood she would have run, but she did not embrace the fear she felt and, in an expression of ultimate kindness, without saying anything she placed her hand over his wound. Then he began, just a little, to feel something other than his desire to fight.
- So that means that kindness basically touched those feelings for the first time.
That the girl was able to ignore her fear and embrace him because they shared the same emotions, they understood one another. He only knew how to fight, but there he came to understand humans and to know that there are these other feelings. But they shouldn't be unnecessary to him. He exists to fight, after all. But he feels no remorse for what has happened. And he knows that their two worlds can't exist together , so he decides to return to the sky. As for having felt those other emotions, he does not regret those either. Yet still, he can't stay on earth.
- The ending sure is getting complicated.
Well, that's how he felt. And he thought that all he could do for her right then was to at least show her the beauty as he returned to the sky. With his body so hurt he could only flap his wings, but he knew that memory would stay with her.
- I can still see that scene from the live...
He stored up a bit of his power, and with that he scattered the stars in the sky and floated back up amongst them. That is what he could show her. And it was her destiny to do nothing but watch as he left.
- I see. I've got it now.
This kind of story will never be anything more than a story. But I think that I have felt like that before. I was born and grew up, and then I suddenly realized about enterprises and went to work, and now I get up at 8 in the morning and work over time do the same thing over and over in order to live. If I denied that I wouldn't be able to do anything, so I forgot those feelings of denial and just go on doing the same things. So maybe those feelings exist even though I live a normal life.
- Can you transpose those things onto ourselves from "le ciel"?
I think so. In the case that someone doesn't see it as a member of the audience they will feel a bit of it, and that means that there's a sense of the world from "le ciel" in that person. From there, the next step is to decide on an ending for yourself. We did our last show in the Yokohama Arena, and I performed this song and then disappeared. You never found out what happened after. But everyone should be able to find the ending inside of themselves.
- At the end of the show, the silhouette of a person with unfolding wings is visible on the stage. Does that have anything to do with the ending?
Nothing to do with it. I can't say everything, but it's not just "le ciel", it's one of the major themes to "merveilles" too. It foreshadows the powerful things that you can see from the beginning to the end of the album. It's a symbol of power, but I don't know if it's the power of goodness or evil.
- Well, with that, do you have anything to say about the newly arranged version of the white "le ciel" scheduled for release on September 30th?
First, I would like you to try to feel the wind from the meadow in France, the overall environment. Back then I sensed the part of myself that had been waiting to find that kind of place.
- The single is the abvient feeling of the environment put into music?
Yeah. I think deep down everyone wants to be in that kind of place. It just happened that it was only in France, not that I found it because of France. I also think that everyone has had the feelings that I chanced upon in France in some other place. I hope I could express that feeling in this song. After some time has passed maybe others will be able to feel things as well.
- Will we understand the difference between this version of the song and the one from the live when we see the music video?
Yes. I think each member of Malice Mizer has a different general concept, but for me the most important one is "what is kindness?" That's not all though.
- Is your way of expressing that in the video different from the angel's way of expressing it in the live?
Well, he's not human. ... ...What I felt the world I saw in France meant, maybe what I felt when the wind and earth joined together, is in the video. But it's hard to say. It's not the same place that we filmed; there is the scenery, it's a country from somewhere else.
- It's not France?
Well...that's a secret (laughs). But I think the people I've let see it will understand that I designed things that didn't have to do with the scenery or the general concept of the country.
- From our talk so far I get the feeling that in respect to the place you will return to, you are the type who would wish for a peaceful world.
um~how is it indeed. There are some things I wish I didn't think (laughs). I'd like to be able to live enjoyably but...
- But you don't think you can?
I don't (laughs). Living is a hard thing to think about. There's a humongous difference between being made to live and living, after all.
- And I felt that you were such a positive person from the beginning!
I haven't been for a long time. The song is a product of the environment I'm in right now, so there is positiveness in it. A long time ago I caved in and had only negative thoughts, but I pulled through and now I've become more positive. But still...
- So you thought all sorts of negative things?
Yeah. But my theme since then still hasn't changed. I've always strongly wanted to understand reality and confirm what I find.
- Like, when I heard your story about the angel who was destined to fight, I couldn't help but wonder if you wished you could be like that as well?
It's not that I want to be like that, but I am that kind of person. If that part of me died I would have no reason left to live.
- Lastly, in our interview last month you said that you expected to find the answer to what you were searching for during your show, but I'm concerned about that. How do you think this answer will manifest itself?
We don't really feel like pushing any conclusion or real meaning. Both we and our fans are still looking for answers. And the people who came to our live and who used our stage were each also a small part of the live, and if they exist in that space then it will collide with them and their emotions, and as a result the atmosphere will be created and it will enter nature and each individual's body.
- Wait a minute. You're still not at the stage where you can express it?
(laughs) Seems that way. Therefore, the things that I found at the live - everyone's gonna hate this (laughs) - but you will have to feel and gather them from the cd's and lives after this, and I would like you to anticipate that and wait for it. Right now I feel that's all I can say.
- So it's as if "Le Ciel" has an infinite number of meanings and developments?
There are things I have said flat out and others that are more implicit, but they won't necessarily give you the meaning of the song. There are things with meaning in it, big things.
That's right. People have been able to see Merveilles by asking what it equals, but that reply really upsets me. It doesn't work, that's not what it is, so that way Merveilles becomes only sensory words. For example, kindness creates a different image for everybody. That's one of the problems with Japanese; we only have the word "yasashii" for kind* and there's no other way to say it. I think it's a word that has been defined by our culture, like I've heard that in Alaska there are over a hundred words to describe the sky*. It's not just something like "beautiful sky", there are a lot of ways to say "___ sky" that describe the beautiful conditions. But in Japanese there is only one way to express very emotional things like kindness, beauty, and sadness. But for those emotions, if even the nuance changes, I think it's impossible to convey the meaning. The words aren't important to people when they're nonsensical. That's a big problem for me.
* yasashii = kind, tender...I get what he's saying, but isn't it the same with most languages? Maybe it's like snow. The Eskimos have over 30 words that describe types of snow. All we have are "snow" and "precipitation" and then we tack on "sticky" and stuff like that. Guess it's like that. I know people already knew what he meant; I just thought the snow thing was fun to know.
*Bursts out laughing* I translate sentence by sentence and then write notes on them before I go on to the next one, so I had written the previous note before I translated this sentence. Then I looked at it and saw "in Alaska.." and thought "oh my..", but it turned out he was talking about the sky. Well, at any rate, rejoice. Now you, like, know Alaskan...or something...
It's really hard to put that in words (laughs). This time there are so many emotions in it. Like I can try to bring Syunikiss together and say the topic is "I want you to bring back a dead person just one more time", that is my wish. If I can see her* once more there's nothing else in the world I would need. Perhaps that's what people would think. Well, in reality, when her form appeared before him, is she there in reality? She is like a doll without a soul, so could he love her? For example, while the person is holding her body, which is like a doll's, unable to feel human emotions, she says "kill me", as a person, can he really let her live? Would that be kindness? There are so many of those questions...
*Gackt has not been using pronouns when he's talking about the songs. Guess that would restrict them too much. I had no choice though; they're too important for English grammar to simply pass over. So when I say he or she, I mean a generic person: a zir.
This time, if you see the promotion video for "le ciel" I think you will understand "le ciel", but for me the story has many different paths. Many many. "Le ciel" means the sky, but that does not mean that sky is where the story really reaches to, basically. For me, I must return home to the sky, and it exists gathered up in "le ciel"*.
* He says home is "sora", or sky, but says that "tenkuu" sky, air, space, is gathered in the song. Speaking of words never meaning the same to anybody, I have no idea why he does this or what the difference is.
- And when you hear proposals for things like "what is kindness", or whether something is right or wrong, do you take the things that look like they might be with a grain of salt?*
* There was this HUGE complicated kanji that I couldn't find in my dictionary for the life of me. I figured since it was only the interviewer it wouldn't matter too much. Still, I'm sorry : ( *oh look, its eyes are crooked. dahahaha....okey* Translating sucks out brain materials...
Nowadays society's general ideas of what is right or wrong is clearly not the same as any of the ideas found before within the flow of history. And a hundred, two hundred year later it will change again, and I think I will have too*. By chance in this age the things that the majority says are right are, but I don't think so. I think maybe some people in this age were born too soon, the ones who don't fit the mold of what is right. I don't think that those people are all bad. In fact, I may fit into that category.
* We must remember, Gackt is 400 some-odd years old. Looks like he's planning on reaching at least 700.
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