The ideal figure that the guitarist who leads the band as a leader got while struggling, and the reason for his unstoppable pursuit.
“When we released “CLEVER SLEAZOID”, we were still chasing an ideal, and I think we didn’t reach it. We didn’t, but I feel that pursuing how we could do that, the power at that time, remains in it as something that could be only be produced at that moment. If you look at it now, I think it’s connected to reality”
——–
Text by: Yohsuke Hayakawa
The first to appear in this magazine is Kaoru, the guitarist who is also the composer of the latest single “Ochita koto ga aru sora”. Starting with the process of making the single, leading up to the completion of this new song, the days of struggling to pursue the ideal sound, the originality that they got from that, and the current band that has not changed from the past intense days.
What I saw on him was, the figure of a stoic leader who bet on Dir en grey possibilities and devoted himself to it. Also in the latter half of the interview with the theme of “Albums that inspired you”, he did not only talk about X Japan and national legendary bands that changed his life, but he also talked enthusiastically about the unknown world that he learnt from Hide and Tsuyoshi Nagabuchi, who he is a fan of.
“I think there is something that can be challenged now”
-First of all, I would like to ask you about the corona outbreak we are currently in, but it was impressive when you, with your own words, announced on SNS a live without audience ‘The World You Live In” that was held in March with the message of "it’s not the things that we can do now , it’s the things that only can be done now”. I thought the movements of DIR EN GREY with these rare activities and projects that entertained fans were summarized in those words.
K: Well, that’s right. There are things that can be done in the current limited situation, things that we wouldn’t normally do, things that we didn’t come to, and things that we can challenge now. There were quite a few things that were more like "Let’s do it”. Regarding lives without audience, we don’t know how long this situation will keep going on but, under these circumstances, it wasn’t that much at that point in time for us to perform live. We thought it would be a plus for what we are expressing and what we are going to express in the future. Also, we tried to do it in a moment in which you could feel something.
-Including the streaming that came after that, I think there are many people who felt closer to DIR EN GREY. In particular, the livestream of talk between members (DIR EN GREY LIVE ARCHIVE & SPECIAL TALK) is a project that you wouldn’t had think of before, isn’t it?
K: (laughs) We don’t usually talk much.
-(Laughs) Moreover, I thought that it was only now that we could see an appearance of the combination of Kaoru and Shinya acting ‘as usual’.
K: Well, that’s right (laughs).
-Is that something that you could do now, 23 years after your formation as band?
K: No (laughs), the main reason is to do it is the situation right now. If this weren’t the case, I think the idea wouldn’t even come up. Normally there are live performances, so I’d like people to feel it there, but we can’t do that now. Well, it’s just to entertain the fans, but after all we thought it would be nice if they could feel something similar to that, feeling excited by our presence.
-I see. So, regarding the status of the announced the Pia Arena MM performances for the tour final “The Insulated World -The Screams of Alienation-” in July, you probably were thinking about what do to about them until the very last minute.
K: That’s right. It was decided a few days before the announcement that the lives were canceled. Of course, we also made a set list, and the production side was also moving. The entirely staff were informed, and everything was working. I actually went to the venue and talked about how it would be possible to hold the lives in these conditions. However, there may be some people who couldn’t come no matter how much they tried to. There was also the risk of not knowing if you can do it until you start it.
-I think it was canceled after assuming the kind of live performance that was possible to be held, but it was a really tough decision.
K: Well, it couldn’t be helped.
-Oh, in a nutshell.
K: Yes, it couldn’t be helped, it couldn’t be helped. What we could do following the rules (the government guidelines) is the reason we couldn’t do it. Tickets were sold in advance through the fanclub, but in fact, with the spreading of Corona on the way it already had a significant impact on sales.
-Oh, that was what happened?
K: Yes. So, in response to that, we even came up with the idea that all the arena would have seats not only the designed areas. We could do that by reducing the capacity in order to keep a social distance. That way, we also thought that we might be able to do it. However, there may still be some people who wouldn’t be able to come, and moreover, there were a lot of things that we couldn’t do in both days. Well, it was a half-way point situation. Therefore, there is no choice but when the situation calms down, to relocate the dates.
-Under such circumstances, you said you were producing the single in parallel.
K: Yes, we were planning to release it around the Pia Arena performances, so we have been working on it for some time.
-And “Ochita koto ga aru sora” was completed. The original melody was composed by you but, the title was announced in May. I wondered if it was going to be a song that brings melancholic elements to the forefront. I was trying to imagine it.
K: (Laughs) Ah, the atmosphere of the title.
-Yes. The sound that we actually got is bursting with DIR EN GREY-ish aggression that explodes from the beginning including a grooved dragging guitar riff. So, to put it into words, I had the impression the style of DIR EN GREY was contained in a “super condensed” form. It’s used in a kind of luxurious way, with the melody refrain being minimal by scraping off the excess.
K: That’s right. This shape (final song) is like, we were really worried about it and it felt like it just got here. Along the way, there were elements that would make things more exciting, more piercing. There was more development. However, we made it in that way, but I felt like “Well, I’m tired of it” (laughs).
-Hahaha.
K: Rather, it doesn’t seem as interesting as usual. This is really…. words may not match…it’s somehow Japanese. I wasn’t satisfied with anything, so it felt more like I was speaking out my mind (laughs) I scraped it off though.
-The reason why the song became very condensed is that all the members were looking in the same direction.
K: Well, I don’t know that. However, as my method, I don’t really decide (the direction) at the beginning. If you do that, the result will be in that shape and I prefer to explore the possibilities. Besides, because I don’t know if the rhythm really matches the melody or if the back-melody matches, there are many things to think about, so I don’t want to decide at the beginning. Under such circumstances, I didn’t know what to do in the end. Well, I settled on something that someone said, or something that inspired me, but it was hard to get to the point where I could see it.-
-As a result, I feel that the single became very DIR EN GREY-like.
K: Yes, that’s right. I was working on it while thinking that there was that “likeness”
-Did you imagine the development of this single with an impressive melody popping out even though it’s aggressive? I wonder if something like this come out naturally.
K: No. I didn’t really imagine that. Even if I try to imagine, there are things that I can’t imagine at all.
-So, how does the completed form of this song look to you?
K: This time I was arranging it all the time based on the data of the tentative/provisional songs recorded at the beginning. So, with that, it was almost brought to this finished form. From that point on, Kyo sang again several times and changed it slightly but along with the melody from the beginning, it was made with that flow. However, there were setlists that each member made during this time, right? (”DIR EN GREY AUDIO LIVE STREAM 5 DAYS" that was broadcasted on YouTube in May). As you could see there, there are various DIR EN GREY, right? On the other hand, I feel that whatever we do, it will probably feel like DIRENGREY-ish.
-Something that can be hidden anymore. There is something that oozes out.
K: Well, very much, as far as you don’t do something different. I was too worried. When I told the members that I didn’t know what to do, I was told ‘You don’t have to think so much about, right?”, so I was like ‘is that so?’. In the end, the song turned out like this (laughs).
“At that time, I kept struggling to find out how to get closer to the sound I envisioned.”
-Oh, that’s what they told you. As for the form of songwriting, you work remotely regardless of the corona, right?
K: Yes, that’s always the way. So, nothing was different than usual for us.
-The change was that you couldn’t go outside between work time.
K: That’s right. I was concentrated on it all the time.
-Always? (laughs) Then, in that situation, that a member told you to not think about too much, did those words make it easier for you?
K: Well, you can open yourself to new options like “well let’s do it this way a little more”. However, it’s something that I do all the time. Year after after, it’s not finished.
-It will take some time to complete the song.
K: It takes some time. After all, if it doesn’t become something interesting, I feel like what should I do. It takes time to move from the first stage, the members listening to it and go to the “let’s do this”.
-What’s that next step?
K: Listen to the demo songs together and decide to try one from the songs that are there.I think it’s necessary to put a song and drop the world view and the atmosphere of the song clearly at some point, but it takes a long time to get there.
-I think it’s difficult to express this stage in words, but it’s the key to make songs.
K: Yes, it’s quite difficult.
-However, this is also one of the traits of DIR EN GREY but, the chorus that enters at the key points is burning with passion. It seems like it’s going to look good live.
K: As I said before, Kyo is the one who puts the chorus, so it’s normal than the rest don’t know where the chorus is until we record it.
-It doesn’t matter how the guitar riff is going…
K: Yes. It doesn’t matter. That’s why we have to practice all the time during the rehearsal before the live performance. I’m the type of person who can’t do different things at the same time, so I skip it quite a bit (laughs)
-Hahaha. You leave it to the other two (Die and Toshiya)
K: Yes (laughs).
-Then there is another retake of the song “Clever Sleazoid”. What made you pick this song again?
K: He said that he wanted to translate the lyrics into Japanese. Kyo said something like he wanted to try it because the lyrics from the original song changed. It was like, “Well, let’s try to do it”.
-Then, how about the completed form after re-recording?
K: Well, it was already released once, so I don’t really care about it(laughs) Some people liked the original, others will like the new version. Except for the lyrics, the tempo is a bit faster but overall, it hasn’t changed much.
-Originally, this song was released in 2005, but when you look back on DIR EN GREY at that time, what do you think is very different from the present of the band?
K: I would say that there is a solid feeling now. Rather than trying to catch up with anything, I think we are proceeding in a somehow calm manner. The same applies to the stage. It was 15 years ago, so we were young….it was like an apprenticeship, now we are old men, that’s what different from that time.
-What do you remember pursuing at that time?
K: At that time, I was struggling to get closer to the sound I was envisioning.
-Do you mean that you haven’t been able to achieve what you were looking for?
K: Yes. It’s the same with the songs. I was thinking about the sound aspect every, like “How can I make a powerful heavy sound” every day.
-Was that a personal thing?
K: It was for the band as well, I often talked to the members about the kind of sound I wanted to do at that time for the CDs but also for the lives as well, I wondered how could I do it. But at that time, I was struggling to understand it like, “I haven’t achieved it, but I can only show the power of pursuing it while looking for the way to reach it”.
“I haven’t reached it, I can only show the pursuit and power of" how can I do it?“
-Did you see anything regarding that aspect when you started going overseas?
K: No, what I thought when we started going abroad was the importance of being ourselves. I wonder if that would be the most powerful thing. So, around 2005, I felt like I was still chasing my ideals. Like a way that I could I express them in this way. But since we went abroad… and I started to notice that being ourselves was the best more and more….. how could I say it?,..it seems that the destinations we were looking at have been pinpointed all the time. It’s not about how to do it, if we could express what was in ourselves more and more, we would change it to the consciousness that would create that kind of sound.
-That means, for example, that when you released “CLEVER SLEAZOID”, looking back, you hadn’t reached that point that you are talking about yet.
K: I think we didn’t reach it. We didn’t but I feel that pursuing how we could do that, the power at that time, remains in it as something that could be only be produced at that moment.
-True. It emits an unbelievable power and it was a proof of that struggle.
K: Yes. If I look at it now, I wonder if that it’s linked to its originality.
-Surely. After that it connected with THE MARROW OF A BONE (2007). Around that album, did you feel like you obtained that you were looking for?
K: Well, I think I did, but still at that time, I was wondering how I could do it. So I think it’s only recently that I’m thinking in this way.
-Ah, recently?
K: Yes, about “DUM” (DUM SPIRO SPERO, released in 2011). But “DUM” isn’t recent either (laughs)
-Hahaha you noticed that…that’s right (laughs). In an era when you were struggling to pursuit something, you became solid as a band. Then, the atmosphere in the band would naturally change for the better, because it means that from that moment, along with them and the music, you have reached your goal.
K: I think so. Also, what could I say about our band?….. All the members think that they have a different feeling about their knowledge and ability to imagine but, the reaction will definitely come when the song seems to settle down in a “this is it” form. Some of us will say, “I think it’s better do it this way”, while other will say “if we go in this direction, we should do this”. Therefore, that we can talk about such things has not changed from the past. While my senses are growing, after all there is still an atmosphere of pursuit in the end, in doing more and more interesting things, so I think that’s a good place for us.
-Even if you gained more knowledge and experience, it doesn’t feel strangely calm at all.
K: It’s not. If that happens, it wouldn’t be interesting.
“Now I think, do we really want to do that?”
-I see. So, the mastering engineer and mixing-in engineer this time are also talented, but did you proposed the selection of these people to the members after listening to how overseas artists sound?
K: Sometimes I do. As for this engineer,Josh Wilbur, the director said he would like to try to work with him once and asked him to mix “Ochita koto ga aru sora”.He had been trying to get in touch with him for a long time, but he couldn’t, but he was able to communicate with him this time and asked, "Would you like to try it once?”.
-Josh Wilbur is a person whose range of work goes from Avil Lavigne to Lamb of God. How was the result?
K: Well, I’m glad we asked for a simple one.
-After all, with that width….
K: It’s better that way. This kind of person will return what you ordered exactly as you ordered it. Sometimes no matter how much we explain it, there are people who don’t understand, so they don’t know what to do. At first, Josh used to put a lot of effects on songs and so on. Listening to that, Kyo said “nothing is good” (laughs). The exchange was interesting, though.
-If you leave the decision to someone else, something that shocks you can come out.
K: Yes. Wow, this person comes quite a bit (laughs)
-(Laughs) At that moment, you understood his way.
K: So, Josh’s first mix was more metal-ish. Also, the sound of the drums….it wasn’t like it was crazy but it felt like bumpy….it was like “mmm, it’s a bit different”, but after several exchanges with him, it went well.
-What about Jens Bogren (who has worked with many famous metal bands such as Arch Enemy and Opeth) who mixed “CLEVER SLEAZOID”?
K: It’s a different type (of mixing) from Josh. Jens has worked with us several times so far so he knows the directions.
-And the mastering engineer for the three songs of the single, including the live version of “Followers”, Brian Gardner (Linkin Park, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Eminen etc..) is the same one than “Ningen wo Kaburu” and “The World of Mercy”.
K: Yes. If you change the mastering too much, it’s hard to predict the finish result. It’s difficult to know how the mix will turn out, so if you want to change the engineer that does the mixing, you should do the mastering with the same person as before.
-I see. Because the song will be created from the scratch again.
K: Well, that’s also interesting but I’m worried about what to do if it fails…
-About the future of DIR EN GREY, of course, I think that you will only do what you can do under these circumstances but, what kind of expectations do you have?
K: We are thinking about moving towards making an album. As for concerts, it can’t be helped that we have to wait until we can do them, so I guess that I have to devote myself to making songs.
-Taking advantage of this situation, you will be able to concentrate in that.
K: Well, that’s right. I have time, so in that sense it’s easy to concentrate.
-In fact, is it time already to move into the album?
K: Yes. After Pia Arena, we were planning to go to production as we don’t have any concerts.
-For example, the single “The World of Mercy” included an acoustic version of “Dozing Green”, was there any talk about trying to do an acoustic live at these times?
K: Sometimes….that’s right. If we do that, I have to think about acoustic arrangements for that so let’s do a normal live performance (laughs). It’s not a bad idea to do a live like that because of this situation but, it’s like “do we really want to do it now?”.
-Ah, I see. Apart from your intentions it doesn’t make sense to you to simply say “We’ll do it because we can do it” in the current situation.
K: Yes, I think so.
“Without “BLUE BLOOD” I wouldn’t really be who I am now”
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