Despite the hidden gimmick elements in the new single “Oboro”, which brings to the fore “simplicity” and “clearness”, Toshiya’s bass sound has a strong presence. With his words, we are going to start the second half of the solo interviews.
“[Oboro] is a song that holds both DIR EN GREY’s essence and novelty. For me, rather than that uniqueness and novelty, I felt this is going to be the core song of the album.”
Notes before reading: This is Toshiya’s solo interview from GIGS No519 June issue released on April 27th.
You can buy the magazine at Amazon Japan.
Feel free to correct me if you spot any mistakes or any confusing parts.
Links or credits to this post when the content is reposted or captured in other SNS is appreciated :)
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*Toshiya’s interview comes after Kaoru’s, Die’s and an analysis of the latest gear, that’s why in the introduction of his interview the “second half” of the solo interviews is mentioned.*
Text by Yukinobu Hasegawa
Photos by Reishi Eguma.
-You were already composing and arranging songs for the new album and from that, “Oboro” was first announced as a single. What kind of mindset did you have when you tried to move on to the next album from the previous one “The Insulated World”,released in 2018?
T: At the beginning, I didn’t have any specific image of the album as a whole.
-I think you want that (image) to appear naturally while you are doing the creation work.
T: That’s right but as I feel like I’m always making songs, whenever I start, I only have the mindset of “let’s make something good”.
-The songs you composed (from early stage) have not been released to the world yet but, what kind of songs did you make?
T: Surprisingly, simple songs. Not very detailed. But I think it depends on the song. I started writing songs thinking I wanted to make something different from the previous DIR EN GREY, but there were some parts that seemed too different for me. So, I feel like I’m still searching for the direction of them.
-Looking back at the various songs that you’ve made in the past, I feel like you tend to prefer an avant-garde* approach. So, I was a little surprised when you told me you were working on a simple song.
* Avant-garde is a tend for music that sounds nothing like the music we’re accustomed to, experimental, considered to be at the forefront of innovation.
T: Ah, I see. But basically, I think I’m a simple person. I’ve made songs that feel avant-garde but it’s just that such songs were easy to be accepted/used (by the band). I don’t know the specific reason, but I think it’s probably because the range of the band will be expanded. However, many of the songs I make myself are very simple.
-Even if you say “simple”, I think people feel differently about it. For example, Shinya also says his drum playing is “simple" but it’s actually very difficult. How does that simplicity that you mentioned feel for you?
T: That’s right…..I’m wondering how to describe it, but to put it simply, it may not be something very DIR EN GREY-ish. I think many of the simple songs I make are like that.
-What do you think that is “DIR EN GREY-ish”?
T: Our band is probably “heavy” or “intense"…. Another things that is often said (about the band) is “complexity”, I think that’s the image of the band. With that in mind, the songs I make aren’t very DIR EN GREY-ish. Of course, when I write a song, I’m aware of that.
-Do you dare to make something that it’s far apart from those ideas?
T: It’s the other way round. I’m not trying to do something close to that, but I’m like “I have to take it in the direction of DIR EN GREY a little more”. But from that point on, I started thinking, “How about getting too close?”, "It’s more interesting to be in a slightly different place.” Well, I might just think those things on my own (laughs).
-Are the avant-garde songs born from those thoughts? I think musical input and stimulation are also important when you are composing. In 2020, we were in a situation in which you couldn’t do many public activities but, how did you get that input during that time?
T: Basically, even with this corona situation, there are some things that haven’t changed much. If I had to say something, I can spend more time on composition and production as there are no tours or live performances. Regarding the input part, it seems to have changed, but I feel like it hasn’t changed. Besides, I don’t think it’s something I’m conscious about so, I haven’t changed anything in my music because of Corona.
-Last year in August, “Ochita koto no aru Sora” was released in a digital format but, I think this song has a complex pattern in the development of the next step. What was in your mind when you were arranging and recording this song?
T: Riffs are also the main melody of the song so I basically listened to the guitar riffs and arranged it so I could put my own play in some parts. In terms of sound making, there isn’t much change. Making in a basic way the feeling of my favourite distortion, it feels like mixing various things there.
-For the past few years, you’ve been actively experimenting with various bass effectors every time you record, but have you tried several of these in the “Ochita koto no aru Sora” recording?
T: Basically, I don’t remember which one I used anymore (laughs), but the basic system hasn’t changed, the head is an ampeg cabinet from the 70s, I think it was SWR. In the recording of the previous album “The Insulated World” the bass I used was also a dingwall one. That bass can be used for almighty (pedal).
*1.A bass cabinet is the box with the speaker.
2.Ampeg is a manufacturer best known for its bass amplifiers.
3.SWR Sound Corporation is a specialist manufacturer of bass guitar amplifiers, preamps, speaker cabinets, and acoustic guitar amplifiers.
4. Dingwall Designer Guitars is a canadian manufacturer of bass guitars.
5. Almightty is driver pedal for bass.
- “Ochita koto no aru Sora” was a song with a positive message. Did you find a new direction as a band giving shape to this song?
T: There might some different aspects now but at that time, it may not have changed. I don’t think we can completely overlook that, so I can’t say anything about it. However, “Ochita koto no aru Sora” itself was made completely to be a single. That’s why there may be new things, but surprisingly, I have a strong sense of putting out what was inside us in that way. In what way is it the opposite? Does it feel “new”?
-There are various elements, but I feel that each one is like DIR EN GREY-ish. However, it resonates very much that the lyrics leads from a negative perspective to a positive one.
T: I see. Regarding the lyrics, I think it’s a continuation of the taste of other songs we’ve done so far, but I don’t know because I haven’t asked. However, although the flow of the lyrics are not the same in content, I felt like it was written from a close place.
-The song that follow this one is the new single “Oboro”. Kaoru wrote the original melody but, what was your impression when you first listened to it?
T: I don’t think it’s much different from the finished form in terms of feelings. The intro had this kind of atmosphere from the beginning. I think it’s a song that holds both DIR EN GREY’s essence and newness. However, I personally felt that “this is the core song in the album” rather than being unique or new. As a result, “Oboro” became a single, but at first it wasn’t written with that purpose. We suddenly talked abour releasing a single and after that, as we all agreed that it was a good song for that, we decided to choose it as a single.
-From what part of the song did you feel that it was going to be the core of the album?
T: I felt that this ballad-type atmosphere and feeling really stands out in the album. Because of that, we decided to release it as a single, but we haven’t released many singles like this, so I think it made a good change.
-The fact that you feel that a ballad with a melody it’s going to be the core of the album….does that mean that the other songs are the opposite of it? It seems to be quite an atmosphere where this amazing song was born! (laughs)
T: Well, I can’t say anything about that because not all of them have come out yet (laughs). However, it’s easier to make a slightly up-tempo songs, so I wonder if there are many songs like that for now. Even if I actually make a song, I don’t know if it will be included in the album, so I can’t really say anything about the direction of the album or the feeling of the songs. However, “Ochita koto no aru Sora” was made to become a single, so there are a lot of parts of it that hit the target. And as for “Oboro”, I felt that it was meant to be release as a single, but also that it was meant to be kept for the album.
-For example, do you change the arrangements and the bass approach if it’s an
album song or a single song?
T: Yes, it changes. It’s completely different for me if is going to be a single or if it is going to be a song for the album. Even if I make the original melody, it’s different on how much time it takes. Singles are harder to do. You can work more relaxed if it is a the song for the album. For singles, I feel that the part I am aiming for as a bassist is very strong at the time of elaborating the arrangement.
“If you think that everyone has slowed down in many ways, I think you can start running again. I think it’s better to act than to think. So, I’m looking forward to the future.”
-Did you do a lot of trial and error in your part when you made the bass arrangement for “Oboro”?
T: It’s really a minor part. It feels like the details are boiled down when it seems to be a bass phrase like that in a rough flow. The bass in the demo of the original song had many root-playing (basic) phrases so, how to elaborate them from there? what do to with the cadence? However, “Oboro” has a bass line that snuggles up to the song, I think this phrase has the strongest awareness of song melody.
-While focusing on that sustain-based roots playing components, some bass phrase will come up when you are doing the arrangements but won’t turn out very showy. And when it comes to the ending of the song, it will show fierceness while increasing the distortion of the sound. I felt it was a carefully selected phrasing.
T: I think it’s easier to hear it at the ending of the song, but that distortion is actually there during the whole song. Not only the ending part is distorted but also the beginning. However, when all the instruments came together, I don’t think that distorted feeling could be properly heard. Even if it’s distorted that much, surprisingly, it goes well easily. I usually have two patterns at the time of recording. For example, even if you use the same distortion effect, the distortion is applied with a little shallow sound like a hunting sound. So, this time, it was a way of finding what I felt comfortable with when it got mixed with the sound of the band.
-So the reason why you can’t hear that distortion in the first half or the middle of the song is because it got completely blended once the sound of the band got together?
T: That’s right. I think there is a perception that if it is distorted, the sound will inevitably be drawn into it. However, if it’s distorted that much, it gives a plump low feeling and you can see the phrase. It’s simply because we don’t stack as many guitars as we used to. Sometimes the sound of each instrument can be heard firmly, so the approach can be focused on what you want to hear. To put it simply, I think it’s a big thing that the direction of the band has become simpler. So, in recent years, I think the balance of the band is very good at the time of put together each member’s part. I think that vocals are especially attractive in “Oboro”.
-Kyo is very fast adding the lyrics, I’ve heard that he finished recording his part before the instruments (recording) were done.
T: That’s right. “Oboro” already had the vocals done at the stage of recording the bass. However, although he recorded it first, in the end this part will be the last one. After all, it seems that there are parts he wants to record again once the other parts (instruments) are added. However, even if it is not the final form of the lyrics, if they are already included, the nuance of the phrase will change. Maybe it’s the same with the other members. I think everyone ends up arranging their parts for the lyrics.
-So, the idea was to keep the bass of “Oboro” as simple as possible?
T: Whether you’re playing or listening, it was a simple form that seemed comfortable. I think a phrase that requires a lot of work is also good. If there is a song that suits that idea, I wonder if I should take a laborious approach. In that aspect, I thought the dynamic of “Oboro” feels as pleasant as possible. However, I was allowed to play a bit with it. I think the proportion and the sense of balance are also good.
-Did you choose to record some takes while changing your approach?
T: “Oboro” was decided by the current phrase from the time I did pre-production work at home.So, when I recorded in the the band’s pre-production room, I just made a few minor corrections when I made the actual recording. As for the mix, regarding my part, it was a good feeling from the beginning
-Neal Avron has been appointed as a mix engineer this time. Did his mixing work significantly change the nuances of the bass sound?
T: It has changed. But the biggest change depending on the engineer is the sound of the drums. More like, I feel that the personality of the engineer can be understood in this aspect. Personally, I think the vivid and deep sound of the “Oboro” drums is good.
-A remake of your song “T.D.F.F” is recorded as one of the couplings. What kind of mindset did you have approaching this song including the arrangement?
T: As always, I thought about the phrase from the perspective of what it would sound like if it were done by my current self. When we do a remake, I listen to the original version of the song to confirm what I was playing at that time. Sometimes it’s interesting to discover that I was playing it live with the wrong idea(laughs).
-The person that you were at that time is brought back as well?
T: There are times that happens when we rethink our approach. It was like this at that time, but I think it’s different to do this phrase now, or to do it with a different feeling. Some of the old songs are due to youth, I have a variety of knowledge and experience now. So, there are times when I change to an approach with a completely different interpretation, and there are parts where I want to play faithfully to the original. For example, keep faithful to the main phrase that would change everything if you changed that. At the time of “THE UNRAVELING” (released in April 2013), I had a strong desire to change everything if I wanted to remake it, so I changed it completely, but in recent years I have been thinking about the original carefully and the idea is to put my current sense into that. Because when you’re making a song, it’s your song, but it’s not only yours. In that case, it’s better to capture our thoughts and the memories and the thoughts of the fans together in order to shape that song in a good way. If you want to make a bold change, I think you should use that idea to create a new song with it.
-The other coupling song is a live track from the concert without audience at Meguro Rockmaykan. What do you remember about this?
T: It’s one of the first stages I’ve stood on since I became a member of DIR EN GREY, but the Rockmaykan with no audience felt strange. When the live starts, there is only one thing to do, so it’s not much different from usual. But I’m not sure if there is something extra in it. It’s not about the call and response (from the audience), I think that the tension inside me is different depending if there are fans or not. After all it is more interesting to have audience. It can also inspire you. I think that such a form of live is also a possibility in times of Corona, but it doesn’t have to be like this every time. However, I learned a lot from this new experience with this new way of expression. Besides, it was a confirmation that there are various things that can be done in a situation like this.
-After this, there is a concert with audience on May 6th. How are you feeling now?
T: I’m looking forward to it and I’m happy. Above all, I am very grateful to be able to perform in front of the audience. Something that used to be normal is not normal anymore, so I wish I could do it with a new feeling.I think the world has simply changed due to Corona. Until now, everyone was running, and I think there was a huge difference between each person’s position. However, because it’s all gone, to put it the other way around, everyone restarted from the same position. How does each person perceive that? Of course, the negative effects of corona are huge, but just thinking negatively does not change anything. So, if you think that everyone has slowed down in many ways, I think you can start running again. I think it’s better to act than to think. So, I’m looking forward to the future.
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